Catalogers Meeting February 24, 2007 [13:03] jwatso21 Book: sure let'd get started [13:04] Christi Janus: feels like a real meeting... ;-) have to make a picture later... [13:04] Rocky Vallejo: I think we should start wtih introductions [13:04] jwatso21 Book: good idea [13:05] Rocky Vallejo: I'm Rocky Vallejo.. In RL I am the Cataloging/Kansas Documents Librarian at the State Library of Kansas [13:05] Rocky Vallejo: you want to go next, Christie [13:05] Christi Janus: ok [13:05] Rocky Vallejo: Christi [13:05] Christi Janus: my rl name is christian, i work at the state archives in north-brabant, a province of the netherlands... [13:06] Christi Janus: ...as head of the department that is about customer services... [13:06] Rocky Vallejo shouts: Hi Swann we're in here [13:06] Christi Janus: ...as an archivest i am trying to explore new worlds here [13:06] Abbey Zenith: Hi Swann, Damek [13:06] Damek Tretiak: hello everyone :-) [13:06] Swann Proost: hi folks .. sorry i'm late .. i was shoveling out a basement [13:07] Rocky Vallejo: we're introducing ourselves [13:07] Rocky Vallejo: Ade.. you want to go next?> [13:07] Adeghord Malthus: Alright. :) [13:07] Adeghord Malthus: I'm Adeghord. I'm a former cataloguer in RL, now I work mostly with small non-profits doing IT and administrative work, though I also have steady contracts working as [13:08] Adeghord Malthus: an archivist with a National Park and as a consultant on several library jobs. [13:08] Adeghord Malthus: I'm the admin for infoisland.org [13:08] Rocky Vallejo: Swann? [13:09] Swann Proost: hi ... i'm an administrator of tech services and systems in a universtiy research library ... [13:09] Swann Proost: i grew up through cataloging and have been fairly active in ALA cataloging groups [13:09] Swann Proost: but i haven't actually cataloged in .. oh ... 20 or more years [13:10] Rocky Vallejo: Cindy [13:10] Cindy Elkhart: Im Cindy and work in Tech Services at the Topeka & Shawnee County Public Library [13:10] Rocky Vallejo: Dinnie [13:11] Dinnie Devonshire: Well, I ahev not catalogued either for a long time, but started out in tech services cataloguing canadian gov doc serials. What a chore! [13:11] Dinnie Devonshire: I now lead inovation and emerging tech investigations for the services branch. [13:11] Buddy Dagger: Sorry, I am just poking around. [13:11] Rocky Vallejo: NP, Buddy.. feel free to wander [13:11] Buddy Dagger: I'm a Digital Projects librarian, not a catalogers, unfortunately. [13:11] Abbey Zenith: I'm Abbey Zenith, head of collections here in SL, I'm NOT a cataloger (in RL I'm a reference librarian and do some copy cataloging), my role here is to coordinate our collections with the cataloging group. [13:12] Rocky Vallejo: Geekster [13:12] Geekster Sugarbeet: I'm the database/catalog librarian at Marquette University [13:12] Rocky Vallejo: and Damek [13:13] Damek Tretiak: Hello all, I'm actually not a librarian at all in rl, but I'm quite interested in the SLL2 project [13:13] Damek Tretiak: I run the slquery.com site [13:13] Damek Tretiak: so I thought I might be of assistance technically [13:13] Adeghord Malthus: Cool! [13:13] Rocky Vallejo: great [13:13] Geekster Sugarbeet: very cool! [13:13] Damek Tretiak: :-) [13:13] Abbey Zenith: Damek developed the search HUD and billboard we use now. [13:13] Rocky Vallejo: Buddy.. you're more than welcome to join us if you'd like [13:13] Rocky Vallejo: no need to be a cataloger [13:14] Buddy Dagger: Thanks--looks like you're out of chairs, but I may hover here, if you don't mind. [13:14] Rocky Vallejo: np [13:14] Buddy Dagger: I work at the NYU Medical Library [13:14] Abbey Zenith: have a seat Buddy :) [13:14] Rocky Vallejo: OK... I have a very simple agenda and I dont' plan on leading as much as listening... [13:14] Buddy Dagger: hey, look at that!:-) [13:14] Rocky Vallejo: first topic is leadership [13:14] Damek Tretiak: lol....that's the best thing about sl, need sometihng? Just rez it. [13:15] Rocky Vallejo: This group needs leaders... people to step up and take on roles in providing access to informoration within the Info Island Archigelago [13:15] Geekster Sugarbeet: I take it the deafening silence means no volunteers? [13:15] Rocky Vallejo: heh [13:15] Damek Tretiak: I wouldn't mind volunteering [13:15] Geekster Sugarbeet: OK - i'm game [13:15] Rocky Vallejo: we do have ways of convincing you to volunteer [13:15] Rocky Vallejo: GRIN [13:16] Geekster Sugarbeet: har [13:16] Rocky Vallejo: thanks, Geekster [13:16] Damek Tretiak: ...but I'm really not a librarian, so not sure of the details [13:16] Geekster Sugarbeet: damek - we can work it out - i'll bring the catalog geekiness, you the tech coolness! [13:16] Damek Tretiak: sounds like a good match ;-) [13:16] Geekster Sugarbeet: in heaven [13:17] Dinnie Devonshire: I can volunteer my brain (for thinking, not experiments!). [13:17] Geekster Sugarbeet: OK [13:17] Rocky Vallejo: Abbey.... Would you mind telling about current access to resources in Info Island? [13:17] Buddy Dagger: I'm happy to help on the tech side as well. [13:17] Christi Janus: rocky, maybe you can tell us (me...) a little more about what this project is about? [13:18] Abbey Zenith: Currently we have lists :) we have a notecard in the sphere in the welcome center that gives out lists of our collections as well as other information. Damek has developed a tol to search our collections. [13:18] Abbey Zenith: His HUD and billboard can get people to the floor or building that a certain resource is located in. [13:18] Damek Tretiak: currently, anything that is put into one of my slq infoboxes gets listed on the site and searchable [13:19] Damek Tretiak: anything on the info island archipelago is searcheable by the library search button [13:19] Abbey Zenith: It is time for me to do another update to the holdings, since much has been added. [13:19] Geekster Sugarbeet: What about resources off infoisland? [13:19] Abbey Zenith: So far we only list what is available on InfoIsland. I had one inquiry from someone that wanted their library included. [13:19] Abbey Zenith: I'm willing to add those, but I really need the information in the right format. [13:20] Damek Tretiak: I can provide a separate database just for the libraries if needed [13:20] Rocky Vallejo: Christi.. you asked what the project is about... I'd say it's about adding working on the system we have... adding to it, altering it... whatever we can do to provide good access to resources within the various collections in Info [13:20] Dinnie Devonshire: If the format is commonly available, that will make it easier to contribute data. [13:20] Abbey Zenith: Damek has also said that he may be able to make modifications to his SLQ Database to include the fields we need for cataloging. [13:21] Swann Proost: is there a list of fileds currently included? [13:21] Damek Tretiak: yes, certainly. Right now, it's a basic format, but can have more catalog geekiness added :-) [13:21] Geekster Sugarbeet: did everyoI think we need to figure out who we are making this catalog for first - then it might be clearer what data we need to include [13:21] Damek Tretiak: I'll drop an example notecard with the fields init on each of you [13:21] Dinnie Devonshire: Thanks, Damek. [13:21] Christi Janus: ok, i see the question, now what are the issues? is it keeping the catalogue updated, is it makeing a standard format for resources or something else? [13:22] Abbey Zenith: Developing fields we need is one issue. [13:22] Abbey Zenith: Damek needs to know what we want to add. [13:22] Abbey Zenith: then keeping it updated is another issue. [13:22] Rocky Vallejo: Have all of you used the SLQ? [13:22] Geekster Sugarbeet: Well, what not working with the current system? [13:22] Dinnie Devonshire: I think the audience issue is important. Potentially, [13:23] Dinnie Devonshire: thhis is not just for the HUD or SL in general, but also [13:23] Abbey Zenith: currently I'm the one doing all that. We have great collections folks, adding things daily :) [13:23] Dinnie Devonshire: perhaps to advise through the web what is availagble in-world. [13:23] jwatso21 Book: I heard the HUD was hard to use - has that problem been fixed? [13:23] Adeghord Malthus: There are a lot of things cataloguers could contribute to the web presences as well, for sure. [13:23] Abbey Zenith: it would be great if those doing collections could update their own area's collections or if there were a cataloger assigned to each area. [13:24] Abbey Zenith: he HUD is fairly easy to use, a little more difficult for newbies. [13:24] Damek Tretiak gave you Current SLQ Fields. [13:24] jwatso21 Book: I agree Abbey - too much is resting on your shoulders currently [13:24] Abbey Zenith: the billboard search might need some instructions written... [13:24] Marov Petrov: hi - I find a job [13:25] Swann Proost: i have sort of a basics question .. i'm an advocate of cataloging anything that moves, but i am having a ahrd time getting my head around the notion of useable collections in SL .. [13:25] Abbey Zenith: Marov, we are librarians... [13:25] Swann Proost: how are they being used and who is using htem? [13:25] Abbey Zenith: no jobs :) We are volunteers here. [13:25] Marov Petrov: ok - have a nice day [13:25] Abbey Zenith: you too :) [13:25] Rocky Vallejo: Marov.. I can give you a notecard with some info on it [13:25] Marov Petrov: ok thanks Rocky [13:26] Damek Tretiak: yes, any suggestions to make the hud or search billboard more useful are welcome. I think I my have missed soem of the chat earlier. [13:26] Damek Tretiak: Did everyone get a copy of the current fields card? [13:26] Geekster Sugarbeet: yes - thanks! [13:26] jwatso21 Book: yes thanks [13:26] Cindy Elkhart: yes [13:26] Adeghord Malthus: Yup :) [13:26] Dinnie Devonshire: Yes, thanks. [13:26] Swann Proost: yes .. htnaks damek [13:26] Rocky Vallejo: yes [13:26] Buddy Dagger: yep [13:26] Abbey Zenith: Damek, I think they need a bit of a tutorial :) [13:26] Marov Petrov: thank you [13:26] Marov Petrov: bye [13:26] Damek Tretiak: those are just current fields...suggestions are welcome [13:27] Damek Tretiak: yes, I'm working on a video tutorial for the search items that may help [13:27] Abbey Zenith: great! [13:27] Christi Janus: poeh, i find it hard to follow all of the discussion - it is my first sl meeting - could it be an idea of listing all the issues (like abbey did) and then going through them, one by one (or am i the only one that can't follow completely?)? [13:27] Christi Janus: oh, yes i did too (aganin too late with reading... ;-)) [13:27] Damek Tretiak: it can be difficult at times..i find it useful to keep my history window open [13:27] Abbey Zenith: Christi, we'll also make a transcript available. [13:28] Adeghord Malthus: SL chat can be overwhelmingly asynchronous at times, Christi. [13:28] Christi Janus: ok, it's me then... i will try to follow you guys and girls [13:28] Geekster Sugarbeet: I think christi has a good point though - if we're going to make some progress in this meeting, maybe we should agree to discuss a limited set of topics in linear fashion? [13:29] Rocky Vallejo: OK [13:29] Rocky Vallejo: we have a current system in place [13:29] Christi Janus: thanks geekster... ;-) [13:29] Rocky Vallejo: one issue is teaching people how to use it [13:29] Geekster Sugarbeet: glad to see you're easily convinced rocky! [13:29] Abbey Zenith: may I ask Damek one question first? [13:29] Rocky Vallejo: LOL [13:29] Rocky Vallejo: sure Abbey [13:30] Damek Tretiak: lol..i didn't mean to monopolize things :-/ [13:30] Abbey Zenith: Currently I update everything, would permissions allow other people to use the boxes, or would they need their own, and will the info from several people go to the same SLQ db? Ok that is 2 questions. [13:31] Damek Tretiak: currently anyone could use their own box. As long as it's on the archipelago it will get listed undert the libraries items (although I need to keep up with the new islands) [13:31] Abbey Zenith: Great :) So we would just need to give people boxes to be responsible for :) [13:31] Damek Tretiak: but...I could make an adjustment to allow "group" members to add items as well [13:31] Buddy Dagger: oh man, sorry about that [13:31] Buddy Dagger: still new to this [13:32] Damek Tretiak: yes, it might easier if each person managed their own collections (jut my opinion) [13:32] Abbey Zenith: this is what I mean by box :) [13:32] Adeghord Malthus: no worries, Buddy [13:32] jwatso21 Book: What is it? [13:32] Abbey Zenith: the inventory is dropped into it and the box tells the DB where the resources are located. [13:33] Damek Tretiak: i will brand those for the library with the SSLL2 logo for you too [13:33] Abbey Zenith: great :) I've been making them clear :) [13:33] jwatso21 Book: Do you have to keep the item in the box all the time? [13:33] Damek Tretiak: yes, they can be made invisible too :-) [13:33] jwatso21 Book: OK [13:33] Abbey Zenith: the box stays on the floor where the resources are located. [13:33] Damek Tretiak: the site periodically polls the boxes to check if they are still valid [13:34] Damek Tretiak: however, SL has had serious issues with xmlrpc lately [13:34] Damek Tretiak: so...I am putting out a new series that does the opposite. The boxes will poll the site periodically. [13:34] Geekster Sugarbeet: Damek - for us clueless types what is xmlrpc & what does it do [13:35] Christi Janus: ;-) [13:35] Damek Tretiak: oh sorry, xmlprc is a "remote call" to objects inside SL [13:35] Damek Tretiak: the problem is... [13:35] Damek Tretiak: SL's servers are seriously taxed these days and their is only one xmlrpc server for all of sl that I know of [13:35] Damek Tretiak: so, it doesn't always work right no [13:36] Dinnie Devonshire: Thats absurd, only one server [13:36] Damek Tretiak: I am doing away with that and have found a faster, more reliable method to work with [13:36] Abbey Zenith: oh some of the collections people (like Rocky & Cindy) already format the information for me....bless them! [13:36] Damek Tretiak: yes, it is...part of theproblme is that when they have asset server issues, it also affects xmlrpc calls inbound [13:36] Rocky Vallejo: and it's not hard to do either [13:36] Geekster Sugarbeet: Abbey, Damek - could we get back to this issue later? By the power vested in me by Rocky - i have been annointed to lead this meeting & I'd like to get to the agenda! [13:37] Damek Tretiak: yes, by all means :-) [13:37] Rocky Vallejo: LOl... Geekster said she was ready for the leadership role and I've asked her to lead the meeting [13:37] Abbey Zenith: YAY Geekster... [13:37] Geekster Sugarbeet: Does everyone have a copy of the e-mail rocky sent out (thanks Damek! and Abbey!) [13:37] jwatso21 Book: yes [13:38] Cindy Elkhart: yes [13:38] Damek Tretiak: I thought I heard the gavel hammer come down [13:38] Dinnie Devonshire: no [13:38] Christi Janus: do you mean the notecard? [13:38] Rocky Vallejo: I can get one to you Dinnie [13:38] Dinnie Devonshire: Ta. [13:38] Christi Janus: can you sent one to me also? [13:38] Rocky Vallejo: ok Christi [13:38] Christi Janus: thnx [13:38] jwatso21 Book: Damek doesn't have it either [13:39] Geekster Sugarbeet: OK - for those that don't have the agenda - it's pretty short & sweet: Leadership, how to currently access resources in SL libs, what is wanted/need in a SL cat system (no small question!) & construction of a cat sys within SL [13:40] Geekster Sugarbeet: We've got the leadership thing covered (I think): myself, Damek, & Dinnie comprising the "dream team ;-)" - any other volunteers?? [13:40] jwatso21 Book: Sounds good to me [13:41] Geekster Sugarbeet: OK - resounding silence noted! [13:41] Swann Proost: i'll bite as long as it is a team .. i don't have enough time to do it alone [13:41] Dinnie Devonshire: My word, that's some agenda! [13:42] Geekster Sugarbeet: On to currently accessing resources : the SLQuery is the current method - maybe the reference librarians can get us up to speed on what is/is not working for them & for others trying to use the system? [13:42] Abbey Zenith: The system we have been discussing would be our catalog system, if it can do the things the group decides it needs. [13:42] Geekster Sugarbeet: Thanks Swann - typing so much I can't read! [13:43] Swann Proost: heh .. np [13:43] Rocky Vallejo: Are all the collections in Info Island in the SLQ now? [13:43] Dinnie Devonshire: Who is it for? The HUD, or will it be eye-readable for other uses also? [13:43] Abbey Zenith: except for the most recent, yes [13:43] Dinnie Devonshire: the catalogue, I mean. [13:44] Abbey Zenith: there is a billboard one as well as the HUD [13:44] Abbey Zenith: we can put it in more locations too [13:44] Geekster Sugarbeet: OK - so are we NOT considering using the SLQ or are we - I'm confused (as usual...) [13:44] Abbey Zenith: we are [13:44] Damek Tretiak: currently, the hud, normal slq site, and billboards are avail. But we can make a separate site for the library as well if you'd like [13:44] Abbey Zenith: as long as Damek can meet the groups needs. [13:44] Damek Tretiak: yes, I'd like to make sure it meets your needs first. [13:45] Abbey Zenith: so he needs to know the additional fields needed. [13:45] Damek Tretiak: Feel free to discuss other methods as well, I just though I would volunteer my resources to you [13:46] Abbey Zenith: At this point I don't know that any of us know of another resource that does this through SL. Anyone? [13:46] Geekster Sugarbeet: Well, it seems sensible to use a system that's already in place and working - Damek, is there reasonable flexibility? what would be the max no. of fields available [13:46] jwatso21 Book: What does Amazon have and what does it do? [13:46] Christi Janus: there might be great resources at some other islands, like museums.... [13:46] Christi Janus: ...i found one interesting one, with lots of specific info [13:47] Abbey Zenith: Amazon search, just searches the Internet for Amazon books. [13:47] Damek Tretiak: there aren't any real limits right now, so we can add what you feel is necessary [13:47] Abbey Zenith: and the other search we had here did WorldCat, but not SL items. [13:47] Damek Tretiak: both of those are included in the slq items right now as well btw [13:48] jwatso21 Book: If we had our stuff in Wordcat, it woudl find SL items [13:48] Abbey Zenith: yes, that is true... Damek's search covers those as well. [13:48] Geekster Sugarbeet: Maybe we should skip ahead to agenda item 3 - what is wanted/needed in a SL cataloging system. Once we identify some things we need, it may be more clear what search interface will meet that need [13:49] Damek Tretiak: Is worldcat avail fro SLL2 to add items to? [13:49] Swann Proost: that is the important point for me, geekster [13:49] Geekster Sugarbeet: Damek - most likely not - though it would be an interesting idea! [13:49] Christi Janus: if i mat ask another dumb question first, before going to nr. 3? [13:49] Rocky Vallejo: Do you think it woudl be a good idea for a smaller group to meet and go through the fields currently in use and make suggestions to the group on adding more? [13:49] Christi Janus: for who is the system build? for librarians, or also for other people [13:50] Dinnie Devonshire: That would be useful, but I think the larger question is whether we are cataloguing permanent or temporary objects, and in-world or also outside? [13:50] Geekster Sugarbeet: I think I really need to hear from you all why we need to bother with cataloging - what purpose is this effort going to serve? [13:50] Dinnie Devonshire: There are already outside ctaalogues, so perhaps we don't want to duplicate too much if at all. [13:51] Dinnie Devonshire: Is this a resource finder, or a place finder? [13:51] Dinnie Devonshire: or both? [13:51] Damek Tretiak: Those are good questions [13:51] Cindy Elkhart: should be both [13:51] Dinnie Devonshire: If so, then we have to watch the metadata to ensuer it is appropriate to the purpose. [13:51] Damek Tretiak: currently, what's listed is a mix bag of external resources and in-world items avail [13:51] Abbey Zenith: So that visitors to InfoIsland and connecting islands can locate our resources. [13:52] Cindy Elkhart: yes [13:52] Damek Tretiak: it may be more useful to split the external and internal catalogs (imho) [13:52] Abbey Zenith: our resources include URLs true. [13:52] Rocky Vallejo: Depends on how you define the word, cataloging. I dont' think we're here to provide traditional "cataloging." We're here to provide acccess to the collections and resoruces held by libraries and others within Info Island. These resrouces may be URLs, graphics, audio visual, etc [13:52] Dinnie Devonshire: So we are describing, a la RDA; and locating, a la LCC [13:52] Abbey Zenith: yes Rocky! [13:52] Rocky Vallejo: It doesn't have to be complicated... simple access points [13:52] Cindy Elkhart: yes [13:52] Geekster Sugarbeet: right - "cataloging" very loosely defined [13:52] Rocky Vallejo: What we have now is simple [13:53] Rocky Vallejo: we need to se if there are other fields to add to this process [13:53] Rocky Vallejo: subjects? [13:53] Dinnie Devonshire: I agree that it should continue to be simple. [13:53] Rocky Vallejo: or other access points [13:53] Swann Proost: the nature of SL is it is dynamic .. extensive cataloging is difficult .. simple list finding is a more appropriate mechanism [13:54] Rocky Vallejo: so... if we can look at what we have right now... SLQ [13:54] Geekster Sugarbeet: OK - are people coming to infoisland/cybercity/etc to specifically find info. resources? might it be better to get info resources includes in the main SL "search" menu (if that's even possible?) [13:54] Rocky Vallejo: and see how we might work wtih it? [13:54] Abbey Zenith: SL search sucks :) [13:54] Swann Proost: lol [13:54] Cindy Elkhart: yes it does [13:54] Rocky Vallejo: Geekster.. that would be wonderful but [13:55] Rocky Vallejo: we need to start small and work big [13:55] Geekster Sugarbeet: yes - but that's probably where people start - maybe? [13:55] Damek Tretiak: currently, the only search avail in the SL search window is based on parcels [13:55] Rocky Vallejo: the SLQ is a great way to start small [13:55] Dinnie Devonshire: It sucks because LL did not hire a librarian to develop it :) [13:55] Christi Janus: we must not forget people aren't always searching for resources, but for information also... [13:55] Rocky Vallejo: LOL.. yep, Dinnie [13:55] Abbey Zenith: Geekster, we are lucky if we can get our islands and buildings listed sometimes :) [13:55] Damek Tretiak: you won't be able to get individual resoruce items in the main SL search (yet) [13:55] Teresa Arliss shouts: ok, no probs. I've come here because i'm a librarian and want to see what is going on here in second life. [13:55] Geekster Sugarbeet: I'm just trying to get my head around who we are doing this for [13:55] Christi Janus: ...so our system/fields must provide information about the information to, not just about the resources [13:56] Rocky Vallejo: I'd like to help in working o nthe fields in SLQ [13:56] Abbey Zenith: we are doing it for librarians and for the general public, they do come and ask, where can I find info on this or that... [13:56] Swann Proost: that is good to know abbey [13:56] Dinnie Devonshire: I will help with fields also, since I have done that a lot in RL. [13:56] Cindy Elkhart: i agree with Abbey [13:56] Abbey Zenith: we also hope to support academic classes in SL at some point. [13:57] Geekster Sugarbeet: thanks abbey - that's what i needed to know [13:57] Damek Tretiak: event listings are another upcoming search issue that will be avail...if that's useful (although I think that's outside this current scope) [13:58] Abbey Zenith: Damek I want to talk to you more about that later :) WOW [13:58] Swann Proost: do we have a sense of what types of resources are actualy being used? everyithing? a subset? random? [13:58] Rocky Vallejo: Yes... that's antoher aspect of accessin ginformation.. Dinnie mentioned something else... temporary resources [13:58] Dinnie Devonshire: It may not be entirely outside scope if the transcript of the event gets catalogued as an SLL artifact. [13:58] Rocky Vallejo: things that are only here for a month or s [13:58] Rocky Vallejo: there are issues we need to think about there too [13:59] Dinnie Devonshire: Yes, temporary are also an isssue. [13:59] Damek Tretiak: It may be useful to define categories of resources such as temp, library resources, event, etc. Then, define fields for each. [13:59] Cindy Elkhart: yes [13:59] Abbey Zenith: Swann, we can track numbers of users to a building but not the resources they click on or if they actually visit the URL or take the "book" [13:59] Swann Proost: bummer [13:59] Rocky Vallejo: yes, Damek... we need to work out these procedures [13:59] Geekster Sugarbeet: Great idea Damek - would there be a way to automatically expire temporary resources and event records? [13:59] Christi Janus: aren't there scripts that count touches? [14:00] Damek Tretiak: well...I'm actually tracking if someone clicks on the teleport link from the hud/billobard [14:00] Dinnie Devonshire: Some of the temporary resources are set for a defined period. Could they be temporary and then be wiped out after X amount of time? [14:00] Damek Tretiak: So, I can tell how many times someone searched for an item and then clicked to go to i [14:00] Abbey Zenith: Christi, i know of one but it would not work with what we are doing. [14:00] Christi Janus: ok [14:00] Abbey Zenith: cool damek! [14:00] Adeghord Malthus: Do we want temp items to disappear from the catalog? Might it not be fasinating to be able to look at once was - yet have it made clear that it is no longer. [14:01] Dinnie Devonshire: Yes, thats a thought. [14:01] Dinnie Devonshire: So it would have an "expired" notice. [14:01] Rocky Vallejo: archived entiries? [14:01] Damek Tretiak: interesting though...maybe have a separate listing/notecard for those items? [14:01] Cindy Elkhart: yes Rocky [14:01] Christi Janus: depends of the information in the temp object, i guess [14:01] Dinnie Devonshire: And perhaps its creator so anyone could contact the owner if they wanted more info. [14:01] Christi Janus: not all is worth archiving [14:01] Rocky Vallejo: I dont' know... in RL I've had patrons in my face asking me why something is mentioned in the catalog but no longer in the collection. [14:02] Cindy Elkhart: when the information is given it is noted for how long [14:02] Christi Janus: so you must add a selection process [14:02] Cindy Elkhart: it will be in sl [14:02] Adeghord Malthus: It's an element lacking in the current SL experience, for the most part. Little sense of history, as it were. [14:02] Damek Tretiak: we need a wayback machine for sl [14:02] Dinnie Devonshire: But we now have archivists! [14:02] Christi Janus: ;-) [14:02] Rocky Vallejo: So will it be Dinnie, Damek and I working on the fields? [14:03] Rocky Vallejo: is that right, Geekster? [14:03] Christi Janus: but they are having trouble following all of this chatting... ;-) [14:03] Damek Tretiak: lol [14:03] Dinnie Devonshire: It gets better with time, Christi :) [14:03] Swann Proost: i will work with the fields too if you need another set of eyes [14:03] Cindy Elkhart: I'll help also [14:03] Geekster Sugarbeet: Rocky - isn't that jumping the gun a little - we haven't even decicded which resources we'll be describing. Well, maybe we have, but i've heard no consensus... [14:03] Christi Janus: (maybe you can add a field about the long term worth of the information?) [14:04] Adeghord Malthus: I'll send out a transcript URL as soon as we're finished here. To the cataloguers and main SL Lib groups. [14:04] Swann Proost: at a minimum, we should catalog the resources that are in the collections [14:04] Rocky Vallejo: I see them as two different things... the one is the "how".. the other is the "what" [14:04] Abbey Zenith: Thanks Ade [14:04] Dinnie Devonshire: This is new ground, so perhaps we should start anyway, with the caveat that we may need to consult further [14:04] Swann Proost: that is baseline; perhaps we could just start with that [14:04] Snowbell Tiger is Online [14:04] Rocky Vallejo: Great, Ade... [14:04] Rocky Vallejo: thanks [14:05] Adeghord Malthus: np [14:05] Snowbell Tiger is Offline [14:05] Shadow Fugazi is Offline [14:06] Damek Tretiak: I'm still a bit confused as to what resources are to be cataloged. temp, external, in-world only, events, etc. Or are they all to be cataloged, but in separate categoreis? [14:06] Damek Tretiak: Or...all in one? [14:06] Geekster Sugarbeet: Thanks Damek - that part is still unclear to me as well. Can we start by maybe looking at only in-world? [14:07] Swann Proost: i think we shoulkd first get a handle on cataloging the collection of SL .. and then decide later if other things should be brought in [14:07] Rocky Vallejo: We have the linkers... links that provide URLs [14:07] Christi Janus: i think categories must first sign out the kind of information, whether the information is temp or anything, is a property of the resource [14:08] Damek Tretiak: temp could apply to external and in-world, correct? [14:08] Rocky Vallejo: OK... so two groups?.. one studying how we should catalog and the second group styding what we catalog? [14:08] Cindy Elkhart: yes [14:08] Rocky Vallejo: would that be a good beginning? [14:08] Damek Tretiak: I think the what will define teh how eventually [14:09] Dinnie Devonshire: Yes, but I think we will find they overlap :) [14:09] Damek Tretiak: good point [14:09] Geekster Sugarbeet: Maybe I'm too literal minded, but it seems strange to decide how to catalog when we don't even have a good idea of the what [14:09] Christi Janus: first the what-group must come with a conclusion [14:09] Rocky Vallejo: So inthis case the what shold come first [14:09] Christi Janus: then the how-group can start, i guess [14:09] Damek Tretiak: I agree [14:10] Dinnie Devonshire: Yes [14:10] Rocky Vallejo: great [14:10] Rocky Vallejo: who is what?... LOL... [14:10] Geekster Sugarbeet: Good! So, WHAT should be cataloged? [14:10] Dinnie Devonshire: :) [14:10] Rocky Vallejo: in the what group.... I'm more of a How person [14:10] Swann Proost envisions of matrix of objects with potential to be cataloged [14:10] Rocky Vallejo: I mentioend the linkers [14:11] Abbey Zenith: we have audio books [14:11] Rocky Vallejo: they are full of URLs that guide people off world to web pages.... Include? [14:11] Abbey Zenith: notecard books [14:11] Abbey Zenith: in world books [14:11] Rocky Vallejo: graphics [14:11] Rocky Vallejo: art [14:11] Cindy Elkhart: yes and we need to let people know what they are [14:11] Dinnie Devonshire: Any of the things in world are in world, whether they are intrinsic to themselves or link to something outside. [14:11] Abbey Zenith: we have objects that give out notecards with information, yes like art. [14:12] Dinnie Devonshire: And the linkers, as linkers. Not the resources outside they lead to. [14:12] Damek Tretiak: not to confuse things, but I'm also starting to bring in teh full gutenberg text files into SL...they could be included in the library as well [14:12] Geekster Sugarbeet: Damek - don't tell me that! [14:12] Abbey Zenith: super cool :) [14:12] Christi Janus: now we are selecting specific forms, but mustn't we select contents instead? [14:13] Damek Tretiak: lol, trying to bring as much in-world as possible [14:13] Dinnie Devonshire: Do you want "is-ness" or "about-ness"? [14:13] Christi Janus: i am not sure what that means, but i think not all notecards are usefull, for example... [14:14] Christi Janus: ...so not all have to be included in the system [14:14] Christi Janus: so about-ness, as you call it? [14:14] Christi Janus: (my bad english...) [14:14] Dinnie Devonshire: Well, is-ness would be Hamlet in text within SL. [14:14] Damek Tretiak: I think the about-ness defines where the is-ness will be cataloged, correct? [14:15] Dinnie Devonshire: Sort of :) [14:15] Geekster Sugarbeet: Damek - are you sure you aren't a cataloger? [14:15] Rocky Vallejo: You're right, Christi... not all notecards are useful... [14:15] Damek Tretiak: lol, maybe I was in another life ;-) [14:16] Christi Janus: ok, then the WHAT can't be about notecards, but it can be about notecards with information on [x] [14:16] Dinnie Devonshire: Yes [14:16] Geekster Sugarbeet: OK - maybe we could focus on what we would traditionally call "library resource" - then maybe expand our parameters beyond that as we gain experience? [14:16] Christi Janus: ok, now i see [14:17] Christi Janus: so maybe we must make a list of WHAT based on information... [14:17] Swann Proost: that would be my preference, geekster [14:17] Christi Janus: ...and then in what forms that informaion may be found? [14:17] Abbey Zenith: I have 30 pages of resources if anyone wants them [14:17] jwatso21 Book: That would be the best place to start [14:17] Geekster Sugarbeet: Abbey- you'd better send them over to me [14:17] Damek Tretiak: that makes sense to me, because information about say "legal" issues might be found in a notecard, an audio file, or a url [14:18] Adeghord Malthus: Is that all, Abbey? ::grin:: [14:18] Swann Proost: the 30 pages would actually be useful as a testbed [14:18] Abbey Zenith: lol [14:18] Abbey Zenith: lol [14:18] Christi Janus: yes damek, it does, and that is just what the cataloging should be able to do at the end... [14:18] Dinnie Devonshire: We should also look at the current contents of the SLQ [14:19] Abbey Zenith: Damek is there a way to do a complete list? [14:19] Abbey Zenith: Mine are broken down by area. [14:19] Rocky Vallejo: and didnt' we talk about some sort of tutorial on how to use the SLQ too? [14:19] Damek Tretiak: currently, slq is a free-form search engine based on text searches, but I would like to categorize it in the way that we are discussing [14:19] Damek Tretiak: the library would have it's own subset of items of cousre [14:19] Swann Proost: if you can output it in some format, putting it up as a link on a web page or wiki would be most useful [14:19] Geekster Sugarbeet: Swann- sweet idea! [14:20] Damek Tretiak: yes, I can provide a list of everything listed on teh various info islands [14:20] Damek Tretiak: I will list them each by region [14:20] Abbey Zenith: the list of resources I have does not include location, it is just a resources list and will include things not on Damek's list because I have been gathering the new items for an update.. [14:20] Swann Proost: i think that is ok abbey [14:20] Dinnie Devonshire: Simple field delimiters would be uiseful also, so we can see how it currently is held [14:21] Abbey Zenith: we've had big addtions to law, arts, gov docs, and probably others :) [14:21] Damek Tretiak: i can include all of the fields in the header, is that what you mean? [14:21] Swann Proost: i'm more interested in the type of resources, than a full listing [14:22] Dinnie Devonshire: Yes, so we have an idea of the structure as it currently exists. [14:22] Rocky Vallejo: and are we going to move beyond the basic Info Island group of libraries? The Kansas Library and Rachelville have a lot of resrouces in them too [14:22] jwatso21 Book: We should invite all sl libraries to participate, if they want [14:22] Abbey Zenith: I think that would be great, as long as each library is responsible for updating their own. [14:22] Rocky Vallejo: great..I'm ready! GRIN [14:22] Damek Tretiak: yes, I can add any other regions. I may have to do some updates to the site, but I'd like to wait for results from teh groups before doing that [14:23] Christi Janus: and that all use the same information format [14:23] Rocky Vallejo: OK, Damek [14:23] Christi Janus: (or at least the same basic format) [14:23] Rocky Vallejo: yes... uniformity in format would be a must [14:23] Damek Tretiak: I think a standardizd format will help greatly [14:23] Rocky Vallejo: getting us back to the how? [14:24] Geekster Sugarbeet: Yes rocky, getting us back to the how! [14:24] Rocky Vallejo: smile [14:24] Christi Janus: so what is the what then? have i missed this again? [14:24] Christi Janus: i will read the transcript... ;-) [14:24] Geekster Sugarbeet: Right now, the what is the 30page list [14:24] Christi Janus: ok [14:24] Rocky Vallejo: perhaps we should leave the how up to the indivual libraries [14:24] Rocky Vallejo: sorry [14:24] Rocky Vallejo: the What [14:24] Rocky Vallejo: not the how [14:24] Rocky Vallejo: up to the indivudal libraries [14:24] Christi Janus: no, definately not the how... [14:25] Rocky Vallejo: What is an important What for my library might be ignored in another collection [14:25] Dinnie Devonshire: Thats probably OK. [14:25] Christi Janus: i think so to [14:26] Geekster Sugarbeet: OK - we're reaching the 1 1/2 hr point which is far too long for anyone to think about cataloging! I suggest we look at the "what list" when it is available & then meet again as soon as possible thereafter - what say you? [14:26] Christi Janus: perhaps we van make a list of what types of whats we think are usefull for us and customers? [14:26] Dinnie Devonshire: Agreed. [14:26] Dinnie Devonshire: Dinner calls! [14:26] Swann Proost: i second the motion geekster [14:26] Damek Tretiak: I agree [14:26] Cindy Elkhart: yes [14:26] Rocky Vallejo: OK.. are we all in the email list? [14:26] Christi Janus: bed time here... ;-) [14:26] Rocky Vallejo: and in the group.. SL group? [14:26] Damek Tretiak: who's in the waht group? lol [14:26] jwatso21 Book: No, but I'll arrange it [14:26] Dinnie Devonshire: Whats the title of this group, please? I guess I should join. :) [14:27] Geekster Sugarbeet: Thanks jenny! [14:27] Rocky Vallejo: and would it be important for those working on similar projects to have email addys [14:27] Rocky Vallejo: Library Catalogers of SL [14:27] Rocky Vallejo: thanks Jenny [14:27] Dinnie Devonshire: Ta, Rocky. [14:27] Rocky Vallejo: jen [14:27] Abbey Zenith: Thank you all for taking on this challenge :) [14:28] Rocky Vallejo: another meeting down the road? [14:28] Geekster Sugarbeet: Thanks for arranging things Abbey! Rocky, I'll e-mail the group ASAP to try to arrange the next meeting date. [14:28] Swann Proost: i think we could work off line via email or wiki on some of this [14:28] Rocky Vallejo: wonderful.. thanks Geekster for takin gthis on [14:28] Dinnie Devonshire: Someone will have to invite me to the grouop, I think. [14:29] Abbey Zenith: Rocky and Jen did most the arranging :) I just had a lot of 'splaing to do :) [14:29] Damek Tretiak: yes, thank you....keep us on target. :-) [14:29] Geekster Sugarbeet: Swann - if you want to take on setting up a wiki, I'll be yr pal for life! [14:29] Swann Proost: ok, but isn't there something out there already? [14:29] Abbey Zenith: yes [14:29] Swann Proost: or is that just a web page? [14:29] Adeghord Malthus: There is a cataloguing group set up on the drupal site. It's not exactly a wiki, but it's close. [14:30] Dinnie Devonshire: Gotta run, folks. Bye now! [14:30] jwatso21 Book: We have a wiki at http://infoisland.org/drupal/kickbuttcatalogers [14:30] Cindy Elkhart: bye [14:30] Damek Tretiak: nice url ;-) [14:30] Swann Proost: heh [14:30] Rocky Vallejo: heh.... I love that name [14:31] Geekster Sugarbeet: Jenny - I haven't looked at that in a while, is it open for anyone in the Cat. group to contribute to? [14:31] Adeghord Malthus: Anyone who doesn't have an account there and what's to be able to edit or create content should register and then email "accounts@infoisland.org" and I'll give you staff priv.s [14:31] Adeghord Malthus: *wants, not "what's" [14:31] Damek Tretiak: will there be a transcript of this meeting? [14:31] Damek Tretiak: sort of summarized? [14:32] Geekster Sugarbeet: Guedd Ade just answered my question - thanks Ade, I'll be in touch! [14:32] Adeghord Malthus: yes, but I haven't posted it yet, so I don't have a URL. You'll be able to find it from that wiki URL, tho [14:32] Rocky Vallejo: Hi Justanathan [14:32] Rocky Vallejo: Are you interested in the cataloging group? [14:32] Damek Tretiak: great, I think that will be very helpful. [14:33] Rocky Vallejo: We'll be meeting again on Tuesday to pick up people who couldn't make it today [14:33] Rocky Vallejo: COul dyou make that meeting Geekster? [14:33] Adeghord Malthus: Anyone who wants to summarize the transccript should feel free to do so on the wiki [14:34] Geekster Sugarbeet: Rocky, I'll try but Tuesday eves. are tricky for me. [14:34] Rocky Vallejo: ok.. thanks [14:35] Geekster Sugarbeet: OK- I have to run. Thanks to you all for coming & I'll be in touch soon regarding a date for the next meeting! [14:35] Rocky Vallejo: great [14:35] Damek Tretiak: ciao! :-) [14:35] Christi Janus: ok thank you too for this meeting [14:36] Christi Janus: well, i should go too. i found this meeting very interesting and hope to see you again some time [14:37] Damek Tretiak: yes, same here. See you all soon.